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	<title>Comments on: Pedal Pubs Now Legal</title>
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	<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/</link>
	<description>MNBeer.com focuses on Minnesotabeer, brewpubs, breweries, homebrew and all things related to beer in Minnesota. Your source for information about beer in the Twin Cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul and beyond.</description>
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		<title>By: TruthBrew</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42991</link>
		<dc:creator>TruthBrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 19:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42991</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;Ryan&quot;&gt;&quot;Breweries aren’t going to touch it - if they make waves, somebody might pull their tap.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I just met with the New Belgium Brewing &quot;Beer Ranger&quot; for Minnesota.  Quite surprisingly, they do this very thing.  Their draft accounts are required to keep the NB line in a normal cleaning rotation and are subject to checks by New Belgium. I&#039;ll be writing up a bit more about my chat with them soon for the next TCI. Was a discussion I wasn&#039;t expecting but quite interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="Ryan"><p>&#8220;Breweries aren’t going to touch it &#8211; if they make waves, somebody might pull their tap.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>I just met with the New Belgium Brewing &#8220;Beer Ranger&#8221; for Minnesota.  Quite surprisingly, they do this very thing.  Their draft accounts are required to keep the NB line in a normal cleaning rotation and are subject to checks by New Belgium. I&#8217;ll be writing up a bit more about my chat with them soon for the next TCI. Was a discussion I wasn&#8217;t expecting but quite interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Mag</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42965</link>
		<dc:creator>Mag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 18:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42965</guid>
		<description>I may be generally opposed to state/federal interference in many issues, but that doesn&#039;t mean mandated tap-line cleaning would be a bad thing.  It may not be a consumer health concern and thus there may not be impetus from that perspective, but it would protect producers.  Breweries don&#039;t have that much control over who ultimately buys their products, but they&#039;ve got an interest in ensuring that the consumers get what the breweries intended for them to get.  The state/fed have seen fit to require additional parties be inserted in the brewer-to-consumer channel, so why not protect both ends of this channel by helping to ensure that the product is what it&#039;s purported to be?

That having been said, I also think Jason&#039;s point about the additional cost and other resources needed to make this happen being yet another unnecessary burden.  Hell, instead of helping the industry it could end up hurting it.  It could be a nice little excuse to layer on yet another layer of cost and bureaucracy so as to limit the growth and health of those evil breweries.

Let the market sort it out.  I can&#039;t tell you how many times I&#039;ve had a vile tasting Summit or Schell&#039;s (or other beers) b/c some bar didn&#039;t care enough about the quality of the products they sell to clean a fricken line.  I don&#039;t go to those places when I find them.  I also bad-mouth them to any who will listen.  Maybe the Better Business Bureau should develop a new division!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be generally opposed to state/federal interference in many issues, but that doesn&#8217;t mean mandated tap-line cleaning would be a bad thing.  It may not be a consumer health concern and thus there may not be impetus from that perspective, but it would protect producers.  Breweries don&#8217;t have that much control over who ultimately buys their products, but they&#8217;ve got an interest in ensuring that the consumers get what the breweries intended for them to get.  The state/fed have seen fit to require additional parties be inserted in the brewer-to-consumer channel, so why not protect both ends of this channel by helping to ensure that the product is what it&#8217;s purported to be?</p>
<p>That having been said, I also think Jason&#8217;s point about the additional cost and other resources needed to make this happen being yet another unnecessary burden.  Hell, instead of helping the industry it could end up hurting it.  It could be a nice little excuse to layer on yet another layer of cost and bureaucracy so as to limit the growth and health of those evil breweries.</p>
<p>Let the market sort it out.  I can&#8217;t tell you how many times I&#8217;ve had a vile tasting Summit or Schell&#8217;s (or other beers) b/c some bar didn&#8217;t care enough about the quality of the products they sell to clean a fricken line.  I don&#8217;t go to those places when I find them.  I also bad-mouth them to any who will listen.  Maybe the Better Business Bureau should develop a new division!</p>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42964</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 15:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42964</guid>
		<description>Okay. Let&#039;s take a deep breath here. Let&#039;s not argue big gov&#039;t vs. small gov&#039;t, left vs. right, etc., etc. Those big arguments rarely go anywhere. It was an idea, you see flaws and I&#039;m cool with that. 

I agree with Dave. I woudn&#039;t expect monthly, or even yearly inspections. This seems like a waste of effort, time and money, especially with places that make an effort to keep their lines in good shape. I see this as more of a preventative measure to keep establishments from being lazy with regards to maintaining their taps and lines. 

Line-cleaning is a fairly well-defined procedure.  It&#039;s really not that difficult to clean a line and a tap, and many places already do this on a fairly regular basis, either themselves or through a third-party service. 

Unfortunately, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s as easy as not frequenting a place that doesn&#039;t have clean lines. Like Dave said, we tend to blame the brewery for &quot;a bad batch&quot; or some other inconsistencies in the keg versus thinking that the line might be dirty. For me, there are beers that I can taste and &quot;dirty line&quot; may be a quick assumption. With beers that I&#039;m not familiar with, that&#039;s another story. I just wonder how many people have been turned off of a local/craft brew because it&#039;s on a slow-moving line that doesn&#039;t get regularly cleaned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay. Let&#8217;s take a deep breath here. Let&#8217;s not argue big gov&#8217;t vs. small gov&#8217;t, left vs. right, etc., etc. Those big arguments rarely go anywhere. It was an idea, you see flaws and I&#8217;m cool with that. </p>
<p>I agree with Dave. I woudn&#8217;t expect monthly, or even yearly inspections. This seems like a waste of effort, time and money, especially with places that make an effort to keep their lines in good shape. I see this as more of a preventative measure to keep establishments from being lazy with regards to maintaining their taps and lines. </p>
<p>Line-cleaning is a fairly well-defined procedure.  It&#8217;s really not that difficult to clean a line and a tap, and many places already do this on a fairly regular basis, either themselves or through a third-party service. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s as easy as not frequenting a place that doesn&#8217;t have clean lines. Like Dave said, we tend to blame the brewery for &#8220;a bad batch&#8221; or some other inconsistencies in the keg versus thinking that the line might be dirty. For me, there are beers that I can taste and &#8220;dirty line&#8221; may be a quick assumption. With beers that I&#8217;m not familiar with, that&#8217;s another story. I just wonder how many people have been turned off of a local/craft brew because it&#8217;s on a slow-moving line that doesn&#8217;t get regularly cleaned.</p>
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		<title>By: David Berg</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42961</link>
		<dc:creator>David Berg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 14:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42961</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a bit of a misleading argument.  Food and beverage establishments are already under the jurisdiction of the Dept of Health.  They are not inspected once a month, yet they can be inspected at any time.

Tap line cleaning procedures are pretty well documented, and I would hope that anyone who serves draft beer would be as well versed in this as they are in the temperatures required for food storage.

Finally, not everyone understands how important line cleaning is.  A bad beer caused by dirty tap lines is more than likely blamed on the brewery, not the bar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a bit of a misleading argument.  Food and beverage establishments are already under the jurisdiction of the Dept of Health.  They are not inspected once a month, yet they can be inspected at any time.</p>
<p>Tap line cleaning procedures are pretty well documented, and I would hope that anyone who serves draft beer would be as well versed in this as they are in the temperatures required for food storage.</p>
<p>Finally, not everyone understands how important line cleaning is.  A bad beer caused by dirty tap lines is more than likely blamed on the brewery, not the bar.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42951</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 May 2008 05:38:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42951</guid>
		<description>OK Ryan, How many establishments in the state have beer taps.  Now take that number and multiply it by how often the lines would need to be checked (at least once a month, I would guess).  Then factor in the method of actually determining how the lines are actually cleaned (please, point me to an ASTM  ot ISO method).  Finally tell me how we ( or the owners of an establishment) are going to pay for said testing/ certification.  Yes, that seems like a good use of our tax dollars or an extra fee to the establishment.  Instead, how about YOU NOT GOTO THE PLACE THAT DOES NOT CLEAN THEIR TAPS.  Seems like a pretty easy fix to me.

Oh wait, I forgot.  State Goverment should be involved in EVERTYHING.  Go ahead and ask Scott how easy that would be to pass.  Especially when it will cost everyone more money.  I promise he knows better than you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK Ryan, How many establishments in the state have beer taps.  Now take that number and multiply it by how often the lines would need to be checked (at least once a month, I would guess).  Then factor in the method of actually determining how the lines are actually cleaned (please, point me to an ASTM  ot ISO method).  Finally tell me how we ( or the owners of an establishment) are going to pay for said testing/ certification.  Yes, that seems like a good use of our tax dollars or an extra fee to the establishment.  Instead, how about YOU NOT GOTO THE PLACE THAT DOES NOT CLEAN THEIR TAPS.  Seems like a pretty easy fix to me.</p>
<p>Oh wait, I forgot.  State Goverment should be involved in EVERTYHING.  Go ahead and ask Scott how easy that would be to pass.  Especially when it will cost everyone more money.  I promise he knows better than you.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42924</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 04:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42924</guid>
		<description>As some one who has spent 10+ years in state government, 2 as a lobbyist, SHR is actually not too far from the truth. Minnesota is known around the country as being one of the more eclean and asily accessible legislative processes, and I can attest to that. Constituents have amazing power--even more so than multi-million dollar industries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As some one who has spent 10+ years in state government, 2 as a lobbyist, SHR is actually not too far from the truth. Minnesota is known around the country as being one of the more eclean and asily accessible legislative processes, and I can attest to that. Constituents have amazing power&#8211;even more so than multi-million dollar industries.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42921</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 03:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42921</guid>
		<description>I can point you in the direction of a School House Rock video that can show you how to go about getting this all started.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can point you in the direction of a School House Rock video that can show you how to go about getting this all started.</p>
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		<title>By: ryan</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42920</link>
		<dc:creator>ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 01:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42920</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s something I&#039;d like to see MNBeer readers push - mandated tap line cleaning. You&#039;ve all experienced it - bad beer from dirty tap lines. Illinois requires that establishments clean their lines every two weeks, but we have no such legislation. I can&#039;t count how many times I&#039;ve had bad beer because of dirty tap lines. I know that some places are really good at doing so, but other places... not so much. This would be a good thing for us as consumers to get behind. Breweries aren&#039;t going to touch it - if they make waves, somebody might pull their tap. Craft beer drinkers, on the other hand, don&#039;t have anything to learn and only have fresh, clean beer to gain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s something I&#8217;d like to see MNBeer readers push &#8211; mandated tap line cleaning. You&#8217;ve all experienced it &#8211; bad beer from dirty tap lines. Illinois requires that establishments clean their lines every two weeks, but we have no such legislation. I can&#8217;t count how many times I&#8217;ve had bad beer because of dirty tap lines. I know that some places are really good at doing so, but other places&#8230; not so much. This would be a good thing for us as consumers to get behind. Breweries aren&#8217;t going to touch it &#8211; if they make waves, somebody might pull their tap. Craft beer drinkers, on the other hand, don&#8217;t have anything to learn and only have fresh, clean beer to gain.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42916</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 21:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42916</guid>
		<description>morbidmtb.com looks cool.  Stupid morcmtb.com deleted my account cause I wouldn&#039;t post my full name (first and last) to be posted in every single post on a public internet forum.  No thanks.  Who wants their full name in every post on an internet forum?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>morbidmtb.com looks cool.  Stupid morcmtb.com deleted my account cause I wouldn&#8217;t post my full name (first and last) to be posted in every single post on a public internet forum.  No thanks.  Who wants their full name in every post on an internet forum?</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/comment-page-1/#comment-42913</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 20:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mnbeer.com/2008/05/15/pedal-pubs-now-legal/#comment-42913</guid>
		<description>most excellent clarification.  Gonna be at Stub&#039;s on Wednesday?  morbidmtb.com is gonna be there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>most excellent clarification.  Gonna be at Stub&#8217;s on Wednesday?  morbidmtb.com is gonna be there.</p>
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